001 - From Cashier to Chief People Officer

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What is your favorite Girl Scout cookie? Adventurefuls. Really? Okay. I say it without hesitation. For me, at the top of the list of Girl Scout cookies, it's the Thin Mint. I put them in the freezer. These are cold, and they just...

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All right, cookies aside for a second. What really fascinated me about Miki's story wasn't her title. It was where her story actually began, 33 years at Walmart. And it didn't begin in leadership, it actually started at a register. I started as a cashier. I started, it was a part-time job.

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My name is Tony Sanders, and this is Leading Through Growth. Today's conversation is with my good friend, Miki McAllen. She's a former Walmart leader, now the chief people officer at the Girl Scouts of Central Indiana. And this conversation is all about growth and leadership and often how careers can change when someone can see something in you that maybe you didn't see in yourself. One of my store managers said, I see greatness in you. And I was just like,

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really? Where did you say that? You do. But because I had made a decision, I was going to course correct and do something different with the organization. He said, no, I want you to be in salaried management. I really feel like that's the right direction. And so for someone to see something in me that I didn't even see myself initially,

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Hey, I'm going to have you do this. And I was just like, you're just having me do that because he's like, no, I'm having you do that because I know it's going to, it's going to be the right thing. And so, um, and he was, he was with the organization for 45 years, I think like, like just the longevity. Yeah. And so that's really powerful.

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I had to ask her what it was like walking into that company, a company that she knew nothing about, and then somehow building a career that spanned over three decades there. When I was researching, I saw that you worked at Walmart for 33 years. I did. There's my Walmart 30-year plaque on my wall. Oh, look at that. What was it like just even working at a place like that for 33 years? It was incredible.

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Funny story. I didn't even know what Walmart was. I grew up in Nebraska. And then I went to school at the University of Illinois. And I get there and they're talking about Walmart. And I'm like, do they mean Kmart? And they're just saying it wrong or. Yeah, I had no idea. I was like, I don't even know what that is. Well, fast forward two years, I come home because I had come back home and.

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They built a Walmart store like three blocks from my house. I'm like, oh, it really is Walmart. Okay. And so it was summer. I was like, I need a job. Okay, fine. And I had a friend who worked there. She's like, oh, I can get you a job there. And I'm like, fantastic. And so I start working there. And when you talk about culture, sometimes Walmart gets a bad rep on things like,

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Culture can't be it. I still remember my first day at Walmart. I still remember my mentor at Walmart at that first store. Her name was Maria. She was about this tall, a little firecracker, but she was all about how do I make sure you have all that you need to learn and do what you're doing? And I was a cashier and I would say just a cashier, but I never say just anything in that concept

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And I just remember I was a biology major of all things. Yeah, far away from that. And so I do, I remember having that job and then learning kind of what to do. And it was like an exciting, fun place to work. It was fascinating.

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I wanted to pause and jump in here for a second because I believe there's a subtle leadership philosophy hiding in what she's describing here. I think most people see a entry level role as a small role. It's a turnover role. It's when we hire people in and they start here and maybe they eventually work their way off. So we see them as temporary and replaceable. But she didn't.

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I have never been a tagline person, but our tagline line, two of them were, our people make the difference, save money, live better. And those were true. Our people did make the difference and we had to realize that. And I was just talking recently about. Yeah.

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Walmart and Doug McMillan, who is, who's since now retired and John Furner, who's taking over the organization. And I'm a big fan of Doug McMillan and I'm a big fan of John Furner and Cedric Clark and all of those folks, because when you have an organization that has this many people that you're responsible for, you have to be able at a lot of levels because I think Doug McMillan is

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And then you come all the way down to store level. How do we make sure that those are the messages that our team, that I, as a CSM, as an assistant manager, as a store manager, as a market people partner with 10 stores and 3,000 people, how do I make sure that I help my team, that I understand that our people really do make the difference? And how do I...

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How do I make that difference? And I think about like ripple effect and opportunities and there were just so many opportunities. I grew up there. Almost every little thing you do can make such a big difference. Like I said, there's no just in our organization because if we don't have somebody in maintenance helping to keep the facility clean, then we've got,

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A cart pusher out on the parking lot, making sure the carts are off and the cashier who is front facing with every customer. Some customers might walk in, not need any help. I know where everything is, but they get to the front end. They have to face a person at that time.

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The perspective that Miki described didn't just shape her career. It changed how she led others. And especially when stakes get high, when you are at a growing company or even when your career grows, complexity increases and it's easy to lose sight of some of the most important details. I always realize that I don't know it all today. And I remember years old. I don't know.

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I'm not going to ask. We never got to that part of the conversation and I'm not going to ask. No, and I don't like saying how old I am, but it's just, it is one of those things where I know that I am still growing. There are still things that I'm learning about people. I'm learning about

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I was just on a call on a, on a training call about generations, like so many generations in the workplace. And, and I loved the aspect that the gentleman took in that not one is wrong. Yeah. There's nobody's wrong. We're all just different. And, and I think, man, I, I've always, I, that's almost something I say all the time. We're, we are all different no matter what.

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You don't want to say DEI anymore. Fine. I don't like taglines. And so that's fine. But I'm also a twin and I, I share everything with my sister, like DNA. I have the same DNA. I have the same parents. We grew up in the same house, went to the same schools. Everything's the same, but we're not, we're not the same.

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I think that's part of being successful in leadership is knowing your people because everybody's different. Like I said, I had 10 store managers at the holidays, like, you know, Walmart holidays. Yeah. And I had, you know, store managers who were in their role for six months and I had store managers that had been in their role for 10 years. There's no way I treated that 10 year person the same way I did with my six month person.

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And it was just one of those realizing that you just, or, or that brand new cashier or that, that person who it's their first job or that person who is about to retire. And they're just, you have to know your people because you can't, you can't go into every situation and treat every situation the same. You just can't.

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Um, and you have to be aware of that. And because I'm not the same, like I'm not even the same as I was, like I said, when I was a cashier to when I left the organization world of different.

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Burnout rarely looks dramatic. It's not as dramatic as the name would cause you to believe. Sometimes it arrives suddenly and quietly. And that is usually the case for most driven leaders. I know it's the case for me. It's probably the case for you. And so I was curious how she balances everything with one of those brains like I have and probably you have when you're moving fast where things just don't stop. How do you make sure that you don't burn out at the end of the day?

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I have a great support system. There are times when I don't realize how stressed out I am. Walmart was very stressful. Girl Scouts can be very stressful. But there are times when my mind will be going so fast that I don't even realize how affected I am.

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Um, until, until I, I sit down for a minute and I, and I actually do, I've been more conscious about just stopping and trying to shut my mind down, whether it's, I'm going to sit here and just pet my, my Ivy yellow lab who likes to snuggle. Great. Come snuggle with me, puppy.

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Or, um, and then my husband is very good about reading the room or reading me. He, he probably knows me so well that sometimes it's almost irritating where he will just look at me and say, go to bed. And I'm like, no, why would I go to bed at six o'clock? Why would I do that? And he's like, go to bed. And so having that kind of support, um, um,

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is incredible. I told you I'm a twin. I'm a twin. I talked to my twin sister every day, every day, at least twice a day. That's cool. And we ground each other. It's finding those people in my life that kind of like where my mind is like this and they kind of grab my hand is like, okay, okay. Yeah. You got this. Settle down, bring it down a minute. You're okay.

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And then it's like, oh, okay. Let me breathe for a minute because I don't want to burn out. I've experienced burnout before to where it was just like almost talking myself into that next step. Oh my gosh, I have to do what? Okay. Okay. I think I can do this. I think I can do this. And finally just, and maybe just over time.

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just realizing that if I don't stop and take care of me,

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then I am of no good to anybody else. I'm not thinking clearly. I'm not reacting properly. I'm not anything. And I'm not an overreactor. I'm not one to lose my temper and ah, maybe because I learned how to just kind of be right here. But sometimes being right here isn't even the right thing. Sometimes it's like it's necessary not to be there. And so I'm like, okay.

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stop, think, breathe, read. I like to quilt. Just finding those things that can kind of mellow me out. And sometimes that is simply a conversation. This is a great reminder here that if you're building a career, leading a team, or even just trying to keep up with your own ambitions, this may be the real upgrade that we all need. My favorite book, one of my favorite books is,

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is present present over perfect um shauna nyquist um and i think most and i don't want to say i'm type a all the time but um i know that i was a perfectionist um until i realized quickly you're not you're not perfect

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You're not. I tried to be. And, and I, and that's, I think where some of the burnout comes because I'm doing everything I can to be perfect. I've got this, I've got this, I can do this. I can do this. I got this, I got this, I get this. And it's like being okay with, no, I don't. No, I don't. I don't, I don't have this, this, this, I'm going to need a minute on this. I'm

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and, and, and to be present. Um, because I will tell you that, you know, as a, as a store manager with Walmart at, I mean, I, life was a lot. I have a son. Um, and I just remember like he played baseball. And so, um,

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I worked in retail. So guess what? You work on Saturdays and you work on holidays and you, you know, you do. And so I would commit to him. Okay. I'll be at your first game. I'll be at your last game. I can't promise I'll be at the games in between, but I will do everything. And so, but when I was there, I was there. That's like, I'm there to cheer you on. And if something's happening at the building, they'll be okay until I can get back there.

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you know, but actually determining that I was going to be present where I was. And so making those kinds of choices helped because I, I mean, my son is now 30 and I can't get those, those years back, but I know.

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that I did everything I needed to do to be present and do the things that I needed to do when he was growing up. And so, um, and that matters. That really does. It does.

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I think that's beautiful. There's a psychologist. I wish I knew the name to attribute it to. But they essentially said that human suffering, a lot of it comes from not being present. We're suffering over things that happened in our past or we're suffering over things that we don't desire to happen in our future.

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But in our present, if we just stay present, you know, that limits the suffering because in this present moment, like we have our breath, we have our body, we have what we need. And there's so much pleasure and enjoyment in the present. And so that's really affirming for you to hear that as even someone like myself who can really, really get ahead and, you know, brain running a thousand miles in 10 different directions. It's like it's refreshing to hear. Like sometimes we do. We just need to be we need to be present.

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This is a light bulb moment for me. What struck me most was this shift that she described here, because when we think about high performers, the danger isn't failure. The danger is actually perfectionism. It's the belief that you have to have every little single thing figured out in order for you to move forward. I want to tee up the next part of our conversation, because if you're early in your career, or you're sitting in that role that feels small, like we talked about before, I want you to listen very carefully to what Miki says next, because

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This is where confidence actually begins for you. Don't limit yourself by what's going on today. Like I said, what's happening today, there's so much more to come. And so believing in yourself is important. Yeah.

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And just know that you can. When I was a cashier, like I said, initially, I didn't think of it the right way. I just thought of, oh, I'm just a cashier. Oh, this is just a summer job. This is just, just, just, just. And then when I look back after, especially like my first day was July 19th, I turned my notice in on July 19th. Wow. Wow.

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Yeah. And so that was very significant in that I was standing there on July 19th, 33 years later, looking back at all that had happened to me in 33 whole years. And I probably never would have, I never would have guessed that.

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On July 19th, 1991. I never would have guessed that. I didn't think even in that direction. So it's one of those things where you have to allow yourself to think, allow yourself to want, allow yourself to grow, allow yourself to reach, and don't take no for an answer. But you also got to believe in yourself. Because when I think back also on my career, the one thing I did think about was...

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I held myself back. I probably would have been a store manager a lot sooner than I was, but I was always trying to be perfect. If I know everything, then I can go and do this. If I know everything, then I can do this. And I finally was advised, you don't have to know everything before you go into that. And I feel like, and I do, I feel like women do that probably more than men.

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And I say that as an HR person, because I saw a lot of people applied for jobs that I'm like, you really don't know anything about what you're about to do, do you? But they didn't let that stop them. For me, I would let it stop me. I'm like, oh no, I have to be perfect in everything I'm doing. So you don't have to be perfect in everything you're doing. Learn, grow, grow.

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Don't give up on yourself and don't hold yourself back. Don't be the reason you're not successful. Don't believe that. Believe that you really can and then go forth and do it.

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Hope this conversation resonated with you. If it did, please share with someone who is early in their career or going through a really difficult growth phase and they're trying to figure out how they continue. Or maybe there's somebody out there that's just not feeling completely ready to take that leap. Because Miki Reminder is a simple one. This one that we all should take to heart. She's reminding us that you don't have to know everything to take the next step.